Auto na nuklearni pogon

[topolino]

Tko se jos sjeca prototipa GMC s kraja 50'-tih sa nuklearnim reaktorom pod haubom? To bi bila zanimljiva alternativa. Punjenje gorivom svake 2g. godine cijena oko 400kn.

[casual]

Tko se jos sjeca prototipa GMC s kraja 50'-tih sa nuklearnim reaktorom pod haubom? To bi bila zanimljiva alternativa. Punjenje gorivom svake 2g. godine cijena oko 400kn.

i veselje kod sudara... :D

[FileFixer]

Nema veselja kod sudara ako se u tom trenutku automatski blokira nuklearna reakcija sa npr. grafitom. Kako reaktor u tom slučaju joÅ¡ uvijek nije ugaÅ¡en nego je nuklearna reakcija samo usporena, po meni je največi problem hlaÄ'enje djelomično ugaÅ¡ene jezgre u tom trenutku jer ne postoje dodatni sklopovi koji su funkcionirali ispravno za hlaÄ'enje tog reaktora.
Po meni je veći problem samo hlaÄ'enje tj. odvoÄ'enje topline na koju se okreče nekakva turbina koja pomoću generatora stvara struju za elektromotore koji pokreču vozilo, nego sam reaktor.

[zvrk]

tko zna engleski, nek čita... (meni se neda prevoditi)  ;D

Nuclear cars: They're not science fiction anymore

In the nuke-crazed 1950s, Ford wanted to put mini reactors in cars. That didn't fly, but now we're hearing of radioactive thorium lasers that could power a car 300,000 miles without recharging. But what if two of them have an accident?


COOL CADDY: GM's World Thorium Fuel Concept moves if you push it. (General Motors photo)

Are you ready for a laser-powered nuclear car? No, it’s not science fiction, but a modern concept that GE’s “Txchnologist” blog calls a “thoroughly plausible idea.” Actually, writer Steven Ashley (who also blogs for Scientific American) qualifies that further down by saying it has “a kernel of plausibility.” General Motors apparently thinks so, too, because it showed off a similar Cadillac-based prototype in 2009.

The idea of nuke cars is not actually new: Circa 1957, Ford built a 3/8th-sized scale model of an exotic looking vehicle (huge fins) called the Nucleon (at right) that was supposed to go 5,000 miles on a radioactive “charge.” Uranium fission heated a steam generator, and the steam drove turbines -- a nuclear power plant on wheels. The reactor was in the trunk, so storage space wasn’t too great. What would have happened if two of these buggies had collided? The accident scene would need to be quarantined for 10,000 years.



According to Ford, “The model featured a power capsule suspended between twin booms at the rear. The capsule, which would contain a radioactive core for motive power, would be easily interchangeable at the driver’s option, according to performance needs and the distance to be traveled.”

It’s not surprising that the Nucleon never made it to a full-sized prototype, but such was the nuclear optimism of the “too cheap to meter” 1950s. The new car is completely different, but after Fukushima it’s still going to make a lot of people nervous.

The invention of Charles Stevens of the Massachusetts-based R&D company Laser Power Systems, the system is far short of the Nucleon’s full-fledged nuclear reactor. The key is thorium, which is radioactive but not on the same scale as uranium (though it can sub for it in reactors). In the proposed car, “an accelerator-driven thorium-based laser” is used not to send a beam of energy but to generate concentrated heat.

Stevens says his thorium car would be “emissions free” and never need recharging. A gram of thorium has the same energy content as 7,500 gallons of gas, and eight grams could power a car for 300,000 miles. I’m still wondering what happens when two of these cars come together.

Cadillac’s car has styling right out of Star Trek and is called the World Thorium Fuel Concept. It doesn’t have any actual onboard thorium, but it theoretically could.

Stevens doesn’t have a working model, either, because according to Txchnologist it’s having some difficulties integrating the laser with the turbine and generator. And, my guess, he’d also have just a few minor challenges GETTING THE CAR LICENSED. Sorry for the screaming there.



It would be great if you could create a nuclear car safely, but there are a million reasons it will never work. Look at that crazy 8.8-megawatt Russian reactor on wheels at left -- I'd be calmer driving a nitroglycerin truck through a minefield. But hope springs eternal. According to ABC News in 2010, scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory “have created a long-sought molecule known as uranium nitride” that is designed to remove hydrogen atoms from carbon atoms and “extract more energy from fossil fuels, making cars more fuel-efficient, and could also lead to cheaper drugs.” A few glitches there, too -- uranium nitride has to become a catalyst, and that’s not scientifically possible now.

Finally, I hear that scientists at the DOE’s Idaho National Laboratory announced last week that they'd put together a suitcase-sized 40-kilowatt nuke that “could power up to eight normal-sized homes,” and also generate electricity for manned missions to Mars. According to MSNBC, “The team plans to build a physical demonstration unit for the plant and test out its capabilities next year.”

Forgive me for playing the devil’s advocate here, but aren’t suitcase nukes a huge terrorist threat? Just asking. By the way, I have a hazy memory of visiting that same Idaho National Lab some years ago and seeing the huge carcass of what was described as an experimental nuclear car from the 1950s. Maybe I dreamed that.

[zvrk]

Cadillac World Thorium Fueled Concept car



Koliko sam shvatio, prototip radi na principu visoko-naponskog "MaxFelaser" lasera koji je pogonjen torijem.



Ta laserska zraka pretvara vodu u paru, koja pod tlakom okreće turbinu i stvara struju.
Sustav proizvodi oko 250kw (cca. 335ks), teži oko 230kg i stane pod haubu prosječnog automobila.

[topolino]

Hm.
Ovo je zanimljivo. Doduse torij je puno teze nabaviti ako se nevaram. Ali nekuzim kako torij moze pojacati lasersku zraku ili posluziti kao izvor svjetlosti. Jedina mogucnost je da laserom zagrijavas torij i onda porastom temperature torija raste i radioaktivnost koja gubitkom energije prolaskom kroz vodu koja se ponasa kao moderator i hladnjak zagrijava vodu stvarajuci paru. Ovakav sustav je dosta pouzdan jer prakticki gasenjem lasera nestaje radioaktivnost i torij se brzo hladi jer ga ima par grama. Rusi tj. Sovjeti su po tom pitanju najdalje otisli, ali nazalost samo u vojne svrhe i te projekte je progutala povijest padaom sssr-a. Mozda je ovo izaslo iz njihovog vojnog programa.

[zvrk]

Small blocks of thorium generate heat surges that are configured as a thorium-based laser. These create steam from water within mini-turbines, generating electricity to drive a car.

1g Th ima energiju od 28000 litara benzina.
Prirodni Torij je slabo radioaktivan, a sa običnom aluminijskom folijom se može spriječiti Å¡irenje radioaktivnih izotopa....tako da su stavili kućiÅ¡te od nehrÄ'ajućeg čelika (prokrom) debelog 7.6cm. To bi trebalo biti dovoljno.



Ima nepotroÅ¡ive gume koje se jedino trebaju podesiti svakih 5 godina..a inače cijeli auto je napravljen da može izdržati 100 godina bez održavanja.  ;D (jedino neznam za baterije  :D )

[cicili]

Zamisli da kupis auto i miran si sljedecih 250-300 000 km. netreba ni benzin ni servis nista samo vozi misko..  :D naftne kompanije bi umrle.  :D

[ivanm]

kad više ne bude nafte koncepti će preć u proizvodnju..

[topolino]

Ima li tko shemu ili sliku kako taj torijev laser izgleda ili princip rada. Na google mi nedaje nista konkretno.

[FileFixer]

Palo ti na pamet da napraviš nuklearku u garaži? :D

[topolino]

Ne bih :)
Za sada je zatrpana grumf izumima :D
Nego zanima me tehnologija. Dva su nacina da od fisibilnog materijala povecas radioaktivnost da imas iskoristivu fisiju. Zagrijavanjem (u ovom slucaju mozda laserom)
ili dodavanjem drugog ili istog fisibilnog materijala u dovoljnu blizinu da fisija krene. U drugoj opciji imas istu stvar kao i klasicni reaktor koji upravo radi postojanja dva fisibilna materijala u medusobnoj interakciji jednom kad krene nema stajanja. Poznati sustavi za zaustavljanje fisijskog procesa u reaktoru su pre spori za slucaj sudara pri velikim brzinama.
Treca opcija je bombardiranje torija beta zracenjem (elektroni) i ubiti dobijes rendgen.

[FileFixer]

Hmmm... Zar se laserom koji je u biti ništa drugo nego koncentrirani izvor svjetlosti ne bi mogla zagrijavati i obična tekučina te time dobiti paru kao izvor energije za pogon turbine? Jedini je problem golema energija koja se mora uložiti za pogon jakog lasera, ali i to se da riješiti na malo alternativnije pogone...
Mislim da korporacije izmišljaju samo ono šta mogu prodavati i kontrolirati i to je jedini razlog zašto su sve sposobni smisliti osim alternativnog pogona, tj. free energy pogona. Vrlo jednostavno...

[topolino]

Laserom se moze grijati voda i treba dosta energije uloziti u to. No ako sa laserom grijes par grama radioaktivnog elementa ti treba neusporedivo manje energije dokle on zagrijavanjem ispusta velicine reda energije visestruko vece nego je ulozeno u laser da ga zagrije.
Princip upaljac/glavni naboj exploziva.